Rural hospitals are often praised for their personalized approach of neighbors caring for neighbors, but along with the rest of the healthcare industry, rural providers are not immune to the increasingly less human-centered care that we sometimes see today. To help us understand the importance of more personable and less mechanical care, we welcome Dr. Charles Vear, retired Chief of Staff at our very own Hillsdale Hospital.
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Rachel: Rural hospitals are often praised for their personalized approach of neighbors caring for neighbors. But along with the rest of the healthcare industry, rural providers are not immune to the increasingly less human centered care that we sometimes see today. So how do hospitals become more personable and less mechanical?
JJ: With a patient centered approach, careful implementation of technology, and a constant connection to their mission?
Rachel: I’m Rachel Lott.
JJ: And I’m JJ Hodshire.
Rachel: And this is Rural Health rising.
JJ: Welcome to episode 75 of Rural Health Rising. I’m JJ Hodshire, president and chief executive officer of Hillsdale Hospital.
Rachel: And I’m Rachel Lott director of Marketing and Development.
JJ: So, Rachel, sometimes we hear, often in our industry is that healthcare is becoming more robotic and less human touch. Today, we’re going to get into the reason for lack of human connection regarding healthcare and the issues that surround it.
Rachel: That’s right. We’re talking with someone who, as a former practicing physician themselves, has seen the advancements in technology make it a little easier for healthcare to become less personalized.
JJ: You know that’s, right, Rachel? Our guest today is a good friend of mine, decades old friend of mine, Dr. Charles Vear, retired chief of staff at Hillsdale Hospital. Dr. Vear welcome to Rural Health Rising.
Charles Vear: Thank you.
Rachel: Well, to start, Dr. Vear, since I do not know you and haven’t known you for decades, like JJ has, nor have our listeners, why don’t you tell us a little bit about yourself, your background and your work when you were here at Hillsdale Hospital.
Charles Vear: Okay. I always wanted to be a doctor, ever since I was a kid. And people would ask me why I would give them the kind of the cliche that I wanted to help people. But I guess that was truly the reason. But I delayed my entrance into medicine because I didn’t think I was smart enough to get into medical school. And so, I went into social work and then on into teaching. But I couldn’t shake the dream of being a doctor. So finally, at the age of 34, with eight children, I decided to try to pursue that dream and fortunately found a school, Missouri University, that would accept me in spite of my handicaps. And I became a doctor. And I interned in Saginaw, Michigan. And I looked for a place to practice in southern Michigan. I was looking for a small town. I wanted to be a small-town family dock. And I visited a number of communities in Southern Michigan, and among them was Hillsdale. And the thing that tipped a couple of things tip the scale. One, they had a Catholic school. I wanted that. And secondly, they had a college in the town. And that was the only small town that I visited that had a college and that I thought would provide me with some academic security. And it has certainly done that. So those were the two basic reasons that I ended up in Hillsdale.
JJ: So, Doctor Vear, you were in Hillsdale in what year? What year did you come to Hillsdale? Now, can you explain for us in well, first of all, let’s talk about this. You delivered how many children?
Charles Vear: A little over 2000.
JJ: 2000 as a family physician, that’s an important aspect, right.
Rachel: Different than what you typically see today.
JJ: This was well before OB GYN teams came to local hospitals, right, Dr. Vear and you were a family practice provider, but you would stitch up individuals in your office. Of course, you would deliver babies, obviously 2000. Rachel amazing. It is absolutely amazing. And Dr. Vear later recounts his story through two books. Now, Dr. Vear-
Charles Vear: I’ve actually written five.
JJ: Is there five?
Charles Vear: But you mentioned OB. And that is one of my disappointments with today’s medicine. I think I was the last family physician to deliver a baby at Hillsdale Hospital. And I think that’s unfortunate. I’ve been retired for 30 years, and to think that family physicians are no longer delivering babies here is disappointing. You’re concerned about the changes that I’ve seen. And one of the things that happened when I came here, there were 14 physicians and most of us were family practitioners. There was a surgeon and an internist and a radiologist, but most of us were family physicians and most all of us delivered babies. When I first came, we also covered the emergency room. We did not have emergency room doctors. We did not have hospitalists. We took care of we saw our patients in the emergency room. We took care of them when they were in the hospital. And it was my idea of true family medicine where my desire was to take care of my patients from birth till death. And that was certainly true in those days. And I was not unique. All the family physicians in Hillsdale did the same thing.
JJ: So, Dr. Vear, one of the things, if there was ever anyone who’s lived with purpose and whose life is really fashioned with purpose, it’s Bud and Gloria Vear. Now Gloria we call her Glow, was Bud’s wife and partner for how many years, Bud?
Charles Vear: 68 years.
JJ: 68 years. She recently passed away, but was truly a godsend for this community. And I think now that you’ve been retired for 30 years and we are going to talk about your time during your practice and then your time here, what we like to do is we always start the episode with a question of why. And I think as I look at this, Bud, it’s been 30 years, but you still have an amazing why. You still drive and are we allowed to say-
Charles Vear: Don’t take away my car.
JJ: We’re not going to take your car away. We’ve already said that to your kids. But at the end of the day, you still have a why. And so, I want to ask you, what is your why, but what motivates you? What gets you up out of bed in the morning?
Charles Vear: I think I’ve always felt there are three things you need in life to be happy at whatever age you are. And the three things are you need someone to love, something to do, and something to look forward to. And I try to keep those in mind. So, I try to do things that will give me something to do and also something to look forward to, whether it’s writing a book, reading a book, being involved in the fitness center out of the senior center oh yeah, or whatever. And people will realize this when they get older, particularly after they retire. After you retire, you still have the same number of hours in the day. They just aren’t filled with work. So, you have to fill them with something. And for me the something to do and something to look forward to.
JJ: So, I’m going to say it. 94.
Charles Vear: 96
Rachel: Are you kidding me?
JJ: No. Bud Vear is 96. Doctor Charles Vear. Hard to believe it. 96 doesn’t look 96. Still bikes, I’m sure.
Charles Vear: No, I gave up. All right, Jay, there’s three things I’ve lost since I’ve gotten old, okay? One is strength, second is balance, and the third thing I can’t remember.
JJ: I like it. I like it. That’s really good. And then children. So, let’s just get that out of the way. You’ve got a slew of kids!
Charles Vear: Well, when we got married, we had both read Cheaper by the Dozen and we thought that sounded kind of neat. And so, we had agreed when we got married that we were going to have a big family. Now you have to understand that this was way back in the well the 40s the 50s we got married in 1950, 50, and in those days big families were not uncommon. We were trying to replenish after the Second World War and so we had decided to have lots of children. And when we came to Hillsdale, we had ten children. And we had discovered what caused having children and what caused it was moving. Every time we moved to a new location, my wife got pregnant and that’s why we stayed in Hillsdale. And it worked. We didn’t have any more to it. But anyway, we got to Hillsdale and she was pregnant. Of course. We are moving to a new city and that would be our 11th. And we decided that’s it, that’s it, we’re quitting now. But the good Lord has his own plans. And he looked down and he said, oh no, you said twelve, so I’m sending twelve with eleven.
JJ: Isn’t that awesome?
Charles Vear: So, we ended up with twins.
JJ: That’s awesome.
JJ: Isn’t that amazing? That is a remarkable story. It really is.
Rachel: So, tell us a little bit more. You talked about your role in your practice as a family physician, which is very different than what we see for family medicine today. But in general, what was medicine like when you were practicing? How was it different than the experience for today’s doctors?
Charles Vear: Well, I view medicine from two angles. One is the science of medicine, which obviously has made tremendous progress, and the other is the art of medicine. And that’s where I think we’re failing a little bit today. The art of medicine is how you deal with the patient, how you make the patient feel. And the science of medicine, of course, is whether you cure them or not. But I think that there are several factors that have entered into a diminishing of the art of medicine. One of these factors has been the introduction of other specialties, and I’m thinking specifically of ER physicians and hospitalist. And they’re wonderful physicians, and they certainly have the science, but they don’t have any connection to the community. They come here for a day or a weekend or something, and then they leave. So, their relationship with the patients is not personal. And there are very good doctors. I don’t regret that. But in some respects, they’re here to do a job, and they do the job, and they’ll probably never see the patient again. And to me, that’s been part of the change that I think has been unfortunate. As I say, we used to follow our patients in the emergency room, in the hospital and so forth, and that isn’t done anymore. So, I think part of it has been now I have to add an addendum to that. When hospitals first came to Hillsdale Hospital, I was retired at the time, and I think Dr. Alopett was too. But a local resident, actually, Link Miller was his name, called both of us and said, how do you feel about these hospitals coming in? And he wanted to get it. He did not like that idea. And as a family physician, I didn’t like it either. I like to follow my patient in the hospital, but I rethought that a little bit from the standpoint of the patient, and I had a little different perspective. I’m in the office seeing patients, and I get a call from the hospital. A patient I have in the hospital is having problems, and I obviously have to leave the office and take care of that patient. The patients that have appointments in the office have to wait, or they have to reschedule. The hospitalists are usually internist, and they’re very wise medically sure, and they’re going to take good care of a trauma that comes up in the hospital on the patient. So, the patient’s going to get good medical care. With a hospitalist, I can stay in the office, and the patients in the office aren’t inconvenienced. So, looking at it from the standpoint of patience, I think it gives me a little more flexible approach on that.
JJ: Yeah so, let’s talk about your time as a physician, because one of the other issues and or often complaints that we heard from physicians in the last two decades has been what’s called work life balance, Dr. Vear, that they want to spend time with their family. One of the, I guess, hallmarks of family country, doc, as you describe it, is that it was pretty much you, and you were always on call. You had to be at the hospital after you ran your clinic. You were doing rounds probably at 10:00 at night, is that correct?
Charles Vear: Well, usually I did my rounds in the morning, but sometimes I would have to. And of course, I loved OB. Delivering babies is probably the only thing I missed from my medical practice, because it was always a miracle. It still is a miracle to me that this baby started as a single cell and developed like this. I always felt it was miraculous. I missed that. But I didn’t miss the hours that the women decided to have a baby. You’re right, Jay. One of the challenges, and I never had a partner, which was probably a mistake on my part. So, I was on call 24 hours a day, seven days a week, for all of my patients. And when I decided to retire, it was an instantaneous moment. I can remember the moment to this day. It was an August evening, and I was in my office checking, doing chart work or something, whatever I was doing. And I looked at all the thousands of charts that were in the files there, and I thought, My gosh, I’m on call for all these people. They expect me to come in if they have a problem and make some good decisions. And all of a sudden, the load got heavy, and that’s when I decided it was time to retire. It was a moment. It wasn’t a period of time. It varies with different people. And I think specialists, of course, perhaps have a little more flexibility. And today, the way that the hospital is run, doctors have a little more of what you would call lifetime or whatever.
Charles Vear: But I loved what I did, and my wife was marvelous, and she accepted the fact that I could be called out at any time.
JJ: Oh, yeah.
Charles Vear: So that was not a problem. But the burden I was referring more patients if they required long workups. And I said, this isn’t fair for my patients as well as myself, and that’s when I decided to retire.
Rachel: So, it was like a moment when a switch flipped for you.
Charles Vear: Absolutely. John Alip had asked me one time I retired before he did, but I’m older than him. But anyway, John asked me one time bud, he said, how do you know when it’s time to retire? I said, John, you’ll know, you will know. I guarantee you will know. And he wasn’t too long after that that I think he took the shingle down and retired. And I tell people that if they ask me, you’ll know, whatever you’re doing, not only in medicine, but whatever your job is, you’ll know, when it’s time.
JJ: Interestingly, Dr. Vear medicine, which when you started, were you doing home calls?
Charles Vear: Yes.
JJ: Interestingly. Guess what we’re getting back to right now.
Charles Vear: Really?
JJ: In this country.
Charles Vear: Well, I took care of a lot of Amish patients. True. So, I would do house calls for them. They’d come to the office too. But I have to tell you a story.
Charles Vear: Obstacle. I received a call one evening from one of my Amish patients, and he said, Doc, he said, my wife’s having some stomach problems. Could you come out and check her out? And I said, well, yeah, I can do that. And I got to thinking hmmm I was suspicious, so I told my wife to come along with me. I said, you’re coming with me. My wife did childbirth education and also helped with breastfeeding and so forth, and said you need to come with me on this one. And so fortunately, she did. We got there, and of course; his wife was in labor.
Charles Vear: And we delivered the baby. It wasn’t her first. We delivered the baby, and she had a problem afterwards. The afterbirth wouldn’t come loose, and she was bleeding. I’m in the middle of nowhere with no blood, no backup. Oh, my Lord, what’s going to happen now? And fortunately, my wife, who had helped her through the labor and delivery, said, well, let’s put the baby to breast. Oh, okay. Put the baby to breast. And that caused the placenta to release.
JJ: Oh, my God.
Charles Vear: I would not have thought of that if it hadn’t been for my wife.
Charles Vear: And she did fine. And afterwards, I, of course, scolded the husband. I said, you knew exactly what you wanted, a home delivery, didn’t you? And he smiled, and he said, that worked out all right. I’ve seen him several times through the years, and he still smiles.
JJ: Exactly. Well, you know, believe it or not, Dr. Vear, we are actually going back to some of those principles, because I’m going to be releasing here very soon a project where we’re going to do annual visits in the home.
Charles Vear: Really?
JJ: We’re going to do the annual checkup for a certain portion of our population.
Charles Vear: Really?
JJ: Yeah. So, we’re starting to see some of that medicine return.
Charles Vear: Oh, that’s exciting.
JJ: One of those places. Obviously, we do home care, which is an extension of what you as a physician did 40 years ago, 50 years ago. Incredibly so. One of the things I want to get back to the doctor, VAR is the art of medicine. Okay, I want you to expound a little bit further. If you could on that, because you build a relationship with thousands of people in today’s world of technology. Don’t you find that life is just going 200 miles an hour? Doctor Vear well, how do you build that relationship? What advice would you give?
Charles Vear: All right, Jay. One of the concerns I’ve heard from many patients is concerns about getting reports back.
Charles Vear: They go in for an X ray, or they go in for a mammogram. Now, when do you think that patient wants to know the result of that?
JJ: As they walk out the door?
Charles Vear: Yes, and we used to do that. I would come over if I had a patient come in the emergency room. Maybe they had a pneumonia or a possible pneumonia, and we’d do an X ray, and they literally wanted to know right then. And I could do that. I could go in and talk to the radiologist, which I often did, because I can’t read X-ray’s and say, well, what does it show? And I could tell the patient before they left the emergency room, well, you do have some pneumonia on the right side, or whatever, and therefore, we need to give you some antibiotics, or whatever it might be. And I think I am baffled sometimes at the length of time it takes for a patient to find out a report as a woman, if a woman goes in, has a lump in her breast, she has a mammogram, when do you think she wants to know if that’s a problem or not? Like, right away. Not when she has the next appointment a week from then. And sometimes you get that. Well, you’ll have to wait until your appointment. You can talk to the doctor. No, I want to know now. And I had a situation with one of my daughters who had a possible pneumonia chest X ray, and she called several times to the office of the doctor to find out the results, and they well, they haven’t whatever. And a week later, she got reported that you have pneumonia.
Charles Vear: It took a week. Now, this was unusual, I know, but with the technology of today, we didn’t have that back then.
JJ: That’s a good point.
Charles Vear: We would pick up our reports when we made rounds in the morning at the hospital, go take them to the office, and if somebody needed to be called with a report, we could call them right then. It was actually quicker than before we had the technology. And that makes no sense to me.
Charles Vear: To me, it’s almost an attitude that the patient becomes almost a pawn. The patient becomes just a disease or an injury or something. And while we’ve taken care of the injury, what’s your problem? Well, the problem is I didn’t get any feeling that you really cared whether I got well or not. You gave me the treatment, but did you really care? Did it make any difference to you? I’m a human being, treat me like a human being.
Charles Vear: And to me, Jay, I guess if I could encapsulate it, it’s just a question of making the patient feel important regardless of what the disease is, what the injury is, or even maybe what the attitude of the patient is.
Charles Vear: And to me, that’s the part of medicine that I think has suffered. Can I use an example, please, that’s non-medical. We have a hardware store in town, and this is not a commercial. Sure, not a commercial, but Gelzers Hardware, most people in the community are familiar with it. They’ve been there. You can’t walk in that store and be there for 10 seconds before somebody is at your side saying, what do you need? Can I help you with something? To me, that’s the art of business. And that’s the kind of attitude I think we need in medicine, the art of medicine, making patients feel important.
JJ: Well, I know for a fact that you mastered that during your tenure, because even to this day, I hear this phrase. Doctor Vear. Doctor Vear, did X. Doctor Vear delivered my ex. Doctor Vear you made a lasting impression, doctor Vear. It’s because of that human connection that you built. You did not judge anyone, regardless of their ability to even pay. How many times in your private practice did you go without payment?
Charles Vear: That’s an interesting that gets into the government. Oh, it does a little bit, because when I started practice, we didn’t have Medicaid. We didn’t have Medicaid, right? And so, a poor patient would come into the office and they had a sick child, but all three of their children were sick, so they would bring all three of them in. It wasn’t unusual. All the doctors did this, saw the patient. I saw all three of them.
Charles Vear: And I charged for one. Maybe, or maybe it was NC, no charge on the slip that went to the front office. Now Medicaid comes in. Same scenario. Now what do I do? I charge for all three of them. Whatever Medicaid will pay, justifying it by the basis that they pay less. And so, by charge for all three. But it changed my attitude, and that bothered me. That really bothered me because it was a change in attitude based on a governmental program to put something else into.
Rachel: Your thought process yes. That you couldn’t necessarily control or eliminate. It became part of the process. You couldn’t change that.
Charles Vear: And I didn’t feel good about that. I felt good about the patient that I didn’t charge. That made me feel like I had done something Godlike or something. But not when the government was involved.
JJ: Yeah, right. Interesting perspective. Both technology and government payers, how they’ve impacted the care that we can give today in medicine. And to your point, getting back to the art, I think Rachel is so important, and you’re working on that right now with our patient experience and some of the work that you’ve done. I think one of the things that Dr. Virus talked about, what launched this program for his interview today, was giving me the business about an experience that he had in my emergency department. And I’m just going to be candid, and he gave me the wherefore about what needs to change with that. His care was great, but it’s the interactions with the provider and that’s what he wanted me to know and I’ve changed that. As you know, I’ve tasked the emergency department, they’ve brought in a trainer for the emergency department. That trainer will be meeting with those doctors and going through what’s called Scripting and to Humanize to personalize this, because for the Er doc that is here on a twelve-hour shift, seeing 70 patients, it becomes mechanical. It just really does. And so, we have to get back to that Human side. But thanks to Dr. Vear, I actually reached out to the company that we have and had that conversation about we need to shift some focus here. We are getting too mechanical and we are getting too scripted in the sense of getting them in, treat them diagnose, don’t talk, get them out. And that’s what needs to change and that’s what is changing here at Hillsboro. Thanks to the conversation that I had with Dr. Vear, also brought another problem, and that is one of his children, his daughter needed a record on her daughter and they came late one night and they could not access that. And that also prompted us to promote the patient portal for getting that information at the fingertips of our family members and their loved ones. So, through this technology, it all doesn’t have to be bad. We can use it for the good. And getting back to some of the first principles, we’ll call them, that Dr. Vear had decades ago in medicine, I think are what’s really what’s necessary and needed in medicine today. And we’re starting to go back to it. Quint studio developed an entire series on how to connect with the patient.
Rachel: An entire business.
JJ: It’s a business model, right?
Rachel: Hospitals do that.
JJ: Hundreds of millions of dollars have been poured into this over the years by hospitals to try to figure out what is that balance between the art and the science. Now, physicians, generally speaking, Doctor Vear, they really like to focus on the science. They do. And there are great physicians like Doctor Vear who also understand and appreciate the art of it. In many respects, Doctor Vear, that came because you had to. If you did not engage your patients, they would go somewhere else.
Charles Vear: Absolutely.
JJ: And they walk with their feet and they vote with their feet. And that is your livelihood. You can’t rely on the hospital to cut you a check every two weeks.
Charles Vear: No, when I came here, I had to start my practice. There was no guarantee like there is today when you bring in new doctors. And I know that costs a lot of money to bring in new doctors, but there was no guarantee. I started from zero. And I actually built my practice, which was not unusual, by taking extra emergency room call. So, I would see patients that didn’t have doctors or doctors were gone or whatever. And that’s the way I built my practice. But it took me it took me a good four to six months to get to the point where I could pay my way.
JJ: Yeah, it’s amazing.
Charles Vear: So, it’s changed a lot.
JJ: It really has.
Rachel: So, if you had to give today’s health care providers a piece of advice and I think you kind of hinted at this. Of making people feel important. Which to JJ’s point. That’s something we just talked about with all of our staff at our enrichment workshops in July. Was making sure people know that they’re important. That they matter to you as a person. That they. As a human being. Matter to you as a human being. But in general, what kind of advice would you give to our healthcare providers today so they can avoid the trap of going through the motions? Relying on technology is more of a crutch than an enhancement.
Charles Vear: Well, I think I would tell them to pretend that they’re the patient. And what would you like to know about your condition? If you went in to see a doctor? How would you feel about getting information about recommendations, about the way you’re treated, the way you’re addressed? And if you can put yourself in the patient’s shoes, I think it’s probably the best way to approach how you deal with your patients. Don’t view them as just a science project. View them as a human being that has problems.
Charles Vear: So, I think that would be my recommendation. Just put yourself in the patient’s shoes.
JJ: So, it’s been great to have with us today. Believe it or not, our hour is upon us. Dr. Charles Vear single handedly, with the help of his nursing staff and his wife, at times 2000 babies delivered. Amazing. Over two decades of healthcare services here to Hillsdale County providing services in the emergency department outpatient. And it’s just been a great pleasure to have you in the studio, Doctor Vear, and to know that at 96 you’re still going strong. And having written five books and I’ve read two of them, but having written five books to tell of his remarkable journey and their stories of passion and hope and that’s what he brought to our community both. And there’s a tremendous background story about Dr. Vear’s wife and what they’ve done in this community to really energize it. But truly, it has been a great honor to have you share your insights 30 years ago. And what we’re coming around to, full circle, believe it or not, is getting back to some of those first principles. It’s been great having you in the studio today, Dr. Vear.
Charles Vear: Thanks. For giving me the opportunity.
JJ: And before we close, we like to do something on our show by asking a question. It’s a fun segment. We want to know what is your most unique rural experience or one of your favorite memories that is unique to rural life?
Charles Vear: Oh, my. There have been a lot of them. I suppose the story I just talked about the homage home delivery; I did not choose to do home deliveries. I did a couple of them, but they were not intentional because I like the support of the hospital and the facilities and so forth. And I know that I’ll put kind of a plug in for well, is a midwife lamb wife, and she told someone one time that her objective was to deliver more babies than I did, and she actually did that. I think she delivered 2500 or something, and most of them were home deliveries. And she did a great job. She was very good. Occasionally we’d have to do some stitching up afterwards, but she did a good job. But in terms of an experience, that’s an interesting question, Jay. I guess I would say read my book, my Small-Town doc book.
JJ: Small town doc book.
Charles Vear: Yes, that’s right. Which has a lot of my experiences, of course, in there. But medicine to me was a real blessing. And I was fortunate to have an unbelievable woman at my side for 68 years. I am a realist. I want to see the money. But I was married to a woman who was a visionary optimist.
JJ: Sure, she was.
Charles Vear: She looked at the goal and didn’t worry about the journey. I worried about the journey. But no, she was remarkable. I never would have been a doctor without her.
JJ: Well, you were blessed beside you. That’s a wonderful woman.
Charles Vear: Absolutely.
JJ: And we as a community were blessed, Doctor Vear, to have your service to Hillsdale Hospital. And there will be countless stories that are told beyond this. So, I’m sure you had a lot of rural experiences, but just practicing in this rural community probably wasn’t experienced in and of itself.
Charles Vear: Yeah, it was very interesting.
JJ: That’s great. Well, once again, thanks for joining us today, Doctor Ver.
Charles Vear: Thank you.
JJ: Next time on Rural Health Rising, we’ll have another great conversation with another great guest, so be sure to tune in.
Rachel: And with that, don’t forget to subscribe wherever you get your podcast. And if you like what you hear, leave us a five-star review on Apple podcasts and tell others why they should listen to your feedback helps more listeners find Rural Health Rising.
JJ: And you can now find us on Twitter. I’m @hillsdaleCEOJJ Rachel is at @RuralHealthRach. And you can also follow the podcast at @RuralHealthpod. Until next time, stay safe, stay healthy, and stay strong.
Rachel: Rural health. Rising is a production of Hillsdale Hospital in Hillsdale, Michigan and a proud member of the Health Podcast network hosted by JJ. Hodshire and Rachel Lott. Audio, engineering and original music by Kenji Olmer. Special thanks to today’s guest, Dr. Charles Vear, retired chief of staff and family physician for Hillsdale Hospital. For more episodes, interviews and more information, visit ruralhealthrising.com.
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